We’ve all been there at least once. In the corner of a dusty and briyani-debris ridden floor. In the windowless basement. On the second floor, inaccessible balcony with frosted viewing windows. In the front room of a house, with boarded up windows and a tv projection. In a barren false room with a tv projection. Behind a curtain. Under the stairs next to the janitorial closet. Behind a wall. In the room across from the morgue. In the back, past the garbage collector, up the fire escape, down a long hallway, up the narrow stairs, and finally into a room that doubles as a classroom and has 20 screaming Sunday school kids with an overworked male Arabic teacher who expects you to wait outside until he completes the lesson.
And some of us have just been turned away at the door.
Navigating terrible, inhospitable, and downright hostile space for women in the mosque is nothing new. There’s even a movie on the subject. Not every mosque is like this, but a good majority are.
Constructing woman-friendly spaces depends on whether or not women sit on mosque administration boards, is sometimes hindered by spacing issues when constrained buildings are converted into mosques, and is largely ignored as an important issue because of a convenient belief that it is better for women to pray at home.
Despite the fact that Islam is a communal religion — a brother and sisterhood — making women feel unwelcome at the mosque is endemic in the Muslim world.
Back in the summer I wrote a post on the exclusion of children in our mosques. Particularly, how many mosque prayer spaces are not child friendly, and when they are, the onus is placed on parents mothers to take care of the children while the men are free to worship. Naturally, when children are excluded, it really means that women are excluded from religious, communal worship.
Some great dialogue was generated from that post, and Eye left a comment asking for my take on this belief that the “best place for a woman to pray is in her home.”
Let me begin by saying categorically, that Islam does NOT forbid women from going to the mosque. In fact, it was encouraged by the Prophet when he said, “‘Do not prevent the female servants of Allah from going to the mosque…” (Muslim, Abu Dawud). The mosque is the center of the community, of access to Islamic education, and is key to fulfilling certain religious rites. So why then are some women barred outright by male family members? Why is there a global adherence to this belief that’s also being maintained by scholars, laypeople and by women themselves?
The Qur’an does not say where Muslims should pray. There are verses that say simply for worshipers to turn towards Mecca (2:149), and to not build a house of worship upon deceit, opposition or disbelief, but that it is better to build one’s faith on a foundation of love and piety (9:107-110). Unless referring to the mosque at Mecca, the Qur’an is silent on where Muslims need to congregate.
The traditions of the Prophet tell us that any place on Earth is suitable for prayer — any place except anything blatantly inappropriate. Like a bathroom, sewage drain, or bar serving baby back ribs wrapped in bacon and sauteed in a nice brandy sauce (well even so, I know a NYC Muslim liquor store owner who prays in the back).
It’s also in these traditions however, and particularly in the subsequent centuries of predominantly male interpretations of these traditions, that we find support for a whole slew of places for women to pray: behind men, above men in balconies, beneath men in mosque basements, or just not being allowed in the mosque.
Now, the most oft-quoted tradition supporting women praying at home states, “It is more excellent for a woman to pray in her house than in her courtyard, and more excellent for her to pray in her private chamber than in her house” (Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi). In context, this saying was related to the people after the Prophet had announced that men gain more reward when they pray in congregation at the mosque. Nonplussed by this announcement, a woman approached him and said, “but I’m at home with the kids and the housework. I can’t get to the mosque — that’s not very fair is it?” The Prophet agreed, but explained it in terms of a woman’s responsibility in the private sphere: In context, the tradition is saying that while men get more reward by going to the mosque, women who have responsibilities at home get the same reward when they pray at home.
I’ve already discussed the issue of women maintaining the private sphere here. And for some mothers (myself included) this saying makes sense. Hubby and I both work to maintain the home — but let’s face it, it’s easier for him to get to the mosque. When I couldn’t attend evening prayers at the mosque because they were held during Eryn’s bedtime, I prayed at home. Apparently I received more reward doing that, than if I had actually gone to the mosque.
But here’s the thing that bothers me: when this tradition is misused to discourage ban women from the mosque, people are told that it’s because women beautify themselves when going out, and cause fitna or religious strife in the community by “showing off their nakedness.” Because, you know, men are COMPLETELY INCAPABLE of ignoring their sexual urges. So ladies, put down that makeup and perfume and put on that burqa — the men are coming.
This has nothing to do with familial responsibility and everything to do with the subjugation of women.
This interpretation sets women up for failure. When women are relegated to the back, on a balcony, in the basement, and are forbidden from attending, we are effectively removed from the community. When women are removed, we’re forgotten. When we’re forgotten, it’s normal to construct a small women’s prayer space as an afterthought. It’s not very welcoming to be an afterthought. It becomes disused. Women stop coming. People internalize. Children are brought up not attending mosque. Women believe they don’t have to attend mosque. Male interpretation reinforces this. More mosques are built without prayer space for women. And to top everything off, the justification for kicking women out is linked to her body and men’s inability to deal with their own two bits.
Really? Is that how low the scholars think of humanity?
Let’s revisit for a moment: Tradition holds that women should be encouraged to attend the mosque, but for women who have responsibilities in the home, they’ll get the same reward when they pray at home. Not everyone has responsibilities. Some have maids. Some share responsibilities with their husbands. Some don’t have families. Some are converts looking for support. Some are students looking for Islamic education. Some are female scholars looking to educate other women. Some are looking for charity. Some are abused women looking for community support. None of them will get what they need from the mosque if as a global community we truly believe that the “best” place for a woman is to pray in her home.
I started this post painting a pretty bleak picture of our mosques. On one hand, I will go out of my way to avoid the mosques in which I don’t feel welcome. If Hubby, Eryn and I are out for the day and the closest mosque is “unfriendly,” I actually start feeling a little sick to my stomach thinking of praying there. I will actively refuse to pray and wait for Hubby to finish, convince him to just pray with me at home, or we’ll drive further until we come cross a “friendly” mosque.
On the other hand, there are beautiful, women friendly mosques that inspire me and expose me to leaders and scholars that help empower women and allow me to become acquainted with others (women AND men). Together we strive for the betterment of our community, which is what Islam is all about. I jump up excitedly when we go.
I wonder though if I should be attending the mosques that make me uncomfortable. A clean prayer place for women, or not having to use the back entrance shouldn’t be a surprise. It should be the norm. Women need to demand equal space and treatment in the mosque, and not pray in a “penalty box.” The more women become involved in the mosque culture and demand to be representatives on administration boards, the better the situation can become.
But that can never happen as long as women (and men) believe that it’s better for them not to attend the mosque.
***and an afterthought***
A female acquaintance of mine once told me of her experience with an “unfriendly” mosque. She was traveling with her husband and they stopped at a small, nondescript mosque. Her husband went in first to scout the place out. He came back to the car reporting that there was no space for women. Sick of praying in the car and of being refused at the door, she threw up her hoodie and followed her husband into the mosque. Once the prayer started she simply joined the men by standing next to her husband who was last in line — and the two prayed like they did at home.
October 14, 2010 at 7:00 am
Excellent article, thank you for sharing. I’ve been writing about this issue for some time and I no longer cringe when people label me a feminist or worse than that. Reclaiming the word feminist from the extremes on either end of the spectrum is important.
October 14, 2010 at 7:39 am
Asalaamu Alaikum
The only thing I can relate to in this post is the curtain thing. Mosques never had curtains during the prophet’s (pbuh) time. This is a new invention. In our mosque we are not behind the men but beside but there is a curtain. I hate it because I can’t see what the Imam is doing. I want to make sure for things like funeral prayers and Eid prayers that I’m doing it right but we can’t see him. When the Imam makes dua I never realize it because I can’t see him so I assume he’s reciting Quran because I don’t know arabic and can’t tell the difference. I say rip the curtain down and if the non-hijabis have a problem with that well whatever. Why are we catering to them anyway? They should be wearing hijab at the mosque. The women who practice have to suffer because of the ones who choose not to and come to the mosque like its a place to party instead of pray. As for being on the board only rich people at my mosque can do that. You have to be a paying member for years and then you can vote or be voted in. Fat chance I’d ever get picked because most people in the mosque hate me because they think only people from their country or married to people from their country and are really rich and have no more than 3 kids are acceptable. I would love to be a rich man and turn things around…but wait there is one rich man who can’t do anything either…you need a crowd of rich men.Sigh….
October 14, 2010 at 11:26 pm
Thanks for sharing your mosque experience Aishah and for your comment. I agree, it’s not as simple as I make things out to be in the post. Sure, you can actively go into an unfriendly mosque and hope that you can garner support from other women and sympathetic husbands — but the reality is that you have to really infiltrate mosque politics to be successful. Or hey, start your own!
When barriers are placed between the men and women, not only does it exclude women from participation, but it also fosters a non-religious environment. A barrier sends a clear message to some, “you’re not welcome here” — so it’s no wonder to me that women come to the prayer space and start socializing and talking through the prayer. No one can see us… so why not vent, gossip and have fun? For others a barrier is needed because they truly feel they cannot worship properly without one. Islamic or no, they’ve decided this is how they feel most comfortable.
In some mosques I’ve seen a compromise made, where the curtain is not permanent and can open to accommodate those who want it and those who don’t.
What do you mean when you say “catering to non-hijabis”?
October 15, 2010 at 11:27 pm
Thank you so much for this post. I love the way you have addressed the issue, and how you use your own example of taking care of Eryn to show the wisdom behind the above mentioned hadith of ‘the best place for women to pray’. In fact, it kind of reminds me of the Adhan (call to prayer). When a person makes the call to prayer – imagine the sound emanating from a minaret, for example – he is said to receive the reward of the people who hear him and proceed in prayer. Some companions approached the Prophet Mohamed (peace be upon him) and said that it is unfair that only the one who calls to prayer is able to receive such a reward while others cannot…after all, in one specific mosque, at one specific time, only one person can make the call to prayer. The Prophet said that what people should do is to repeat the words of the Adhan after the one who calls to prayer – and when you do that, it is as if you have made the call to prayer and you too will receive the reward of those who pray. This applies to both men and women.
Similarly, for those women who want to go to the mosque and pray, but cannot, God is saying that praying at home is perfectly fine, and even better for you because you are sacrificing going to the mosque as a result of the duties that you are taking care of. At the same time, it allows women who may be unable to attend the mosque, for whatever reason, to not feel guilty. Beautiful.
Personally, I love to pray in mosques and its hard for me to reach the same level of concentration at home. When I hear people tell me its better for me to pray at home, it upsets me – those people do not know what is in my heart when I pray in either place and I know what makes me feel closer to God.
But, in line with the first half of your post – I’ll never forget this one mosque that I prayed in Ontario (I’d rather not pinpoint as I am hopeful that changes have been made). You could smell urine. The carpets were stained. And the area felt wet. I have never prayed so upset before…and I certainly didn’t have khushoo in my prayer – only dismay. We do need women on boards to have our voices heard, but we also need men who have their eyes, ears and hearts open to the needs of women (and children) too to speak out as well.
Thank you woodturtle. Do keep your posts coming. They are certainly something I look forward to each day.
October 17, 2010 at 6:40 pm
Thanks for such a thoughtful comment. I’m sorry about your experience at the mosque. The worst for me was literally praying beneath the stairs next to a smelly mop, and across from the morgue. It would have just been better to pray in the car or outside.
I totally agree — when the space is beautiful, serene and welcoming, it’s so much better for my concentration and feelings of love for God and the community, than to just pray at home. I know worship can happen anywhere, but there is something about a beautiful mosque — be it sinking into the carpet or smelling the ‘atar that makes a space sacred.
I didn’t know about that Hadith, or the reason why we repeat the adhaan. Beautiful. Thanks for sharing.
October 29, 2010 at 12:03 pm
[...] You know, perhaps it’s best if women just didn’t come to the mosque at all. [...]
November 26, 2010 at 7:12 pm
Not being a muslim myself I have a number of questions, however the main one is: Why are Muslim men so afraid of women? I don’t buy the argument that women incite lust, this is not only the 21st century but a country where we women are equals and men need to learn to control their own desires. This attitude is perpetuated because the women allow it. Ladies, speak up for yourselves, do not accept literally being shuffled under the rug, behind the curtain, in the janitor’s closet. Maybe the Human Rights department of the government should be investigating this practice, because it sounds unconstitutional to me. If the men are truly praying they would not have time to be lustfully incited. Males, control thyselves! By not doing so you put women on a pedestal essentially giving them more power then if you just operated like other religions, and worshipped along side the women who love you and care for you!
November 28, 2010 at 1:55 am
Thanks for your comment Holly.
I think you nailed it. There’s segregation (some strict, some not) when it comes to religious worship at the mosque. And sometimes the worship culture is extended to the ethnic culture. So you’ll also find general segregation between men and women in the public sphere of many Muslim countries. Which means that men grow accustomed to not really dealing acutely with women on a day-to-day basis outside of the home. Which naturally can cause problems for SOME men when they HAVE to interact with unfamiliar women. They just become socially inept.
There’s also a level of modesty requested of both men and women. So when a man refuses to look you in the eye, or even speak to you, it just may be because he’s assuming you won’t appreciate it. It sounds silly, but it’s important to some.
But yes, absolutely, when the argument is constructed that women should be excluded because men are incapable of controlling their sexual desires, it does in a way give a misdirected power to women. It’s just too bad we can’t use it effectively.
Muwahahah… fear me, I have eyeliner!
November 27, 2010 at 1:02 am
[...] Cross-posted with permission from wood turtle. [...]
November 27, 2010 at 10:15 am
You made some pertinent points here.
One of the biggest reasons why this happens is because of the unconditional following of a Madhab/ some scholars’ opinions.
To be more specific, the Hanafi madhab does not allow women to pray in mosques. So even allowing women to pray in mosques is making a concession. That explains the mindset. The problem is particularly pronounced in the Indian subcontinent where people are asked not to deviate from the madhab they were in one bit.
November 28, 2010 at 2:07 am
Thanks YMR. You make a very important point.
I was actually surprised to learn that Hanafi fiqh makes up 70% of the Sunni Muslim world.
It becomes especially difficult when these communities come to other countries where communal life is centered at the mosque. In some regions, they may be the only family from their cultural association for miles — and in order to meet others from “back home” they have to travel to the mosque. It must be terribly difficult for some women if the mindset continues to exclude them from mosque attendance, if the only way they can socialize with familiar women is at the mosque.
And I think it’s also in these situations where concessions have been made.
Thanks again for commenting!
February 21, 2013 at 4:59 am
I am surprised, because I follow Hanafi madhab, and have been to Turkey, which is primarily Hanafi, and women not only pray at the mosques there, but there is usually adequate space, even for Jumah. Are you sure you aren’t speaking exclusively about Deobandi? Deobandi has some bid’ah restrictions for women (quite misogynist actually), and is an offshoot of Hanafi madhab based in the Indian subcontinent.
November 27, 2010 at 4:35 pm
Fantastic post. I left the following comment on MM.
Looks like men do matter and women are the anti-matter, going by some of the comments here. Two cannot exist in the same place!!!
What is amusing, and actually sad, is to hear the constant ridiculous excuse that women wear perfume, makeup and come to the mosque only to chat and therefore are a fitnah to men. I find this, as a man, insulting that people think men cannot control their urges.
Men coexist with women at work, at the stadium, at the groceries, at the community centers etc. It’s complete idiocy to think when these same men meet some women, who are now MORE conservatively dressed (they ARE in a mosque) he will suddenly become uncontrollable.
And shame on the women who think like that. Perhaps those women should stay at home.
November 27, 2010 at 4:36 pm
“comments here”
here = MuslimMatters where your post was published.
November 28, 2010 at 2:29 am
Thanks for commenting Mezba! In both places
it’s quite the debate over at MM.
You’ve highlighted something that’s largely ignored and what I argue every. single. time. I have a post discussing male/female dynamics. It’s mind boggling to me that people actually believe the arguments that because women are naturally inclined to beauty products (we are?!), they’ll incite fitnah. It’s the same as saying that the hijab removes sexuality, but women have to pray behind a barrier because they are a temptation.
And worse, that men are incapable of controlling themselves (because this is even an opinion in a mosque setting?). Insulting indeed!
April 1, 2011 at 11:55 am
Asalaamu Alaikum
Well as for incapable of controlling themselves just because they are men is insulting I been at my teenage am able to control myself.
I attend a christian college where the dress code of women is a black skirt which is above their knee cap and a white T-shirt which clearly shows their body structure.That is where the temptation is at its’ worst and I am still able to control myself.If I am able to control this type of temptation I do not think that girls with full islamic clothing whould cause me any temptation whatsoever.
April 1, 2011 at 11:59 am
@Sam, exactly!
Thanks for commenting.
November 29, 2010 at 4:53 pm
Thank you all for your enlightening remarks to my post. I do understand that Islam is a religion strictly run by the old guard, therefore old traditions die hard. For a religion to survive it must continue to update itself to be viable in the 21st century. By excluding women from praying in the mosque or worse by relegating them to any or all of the disrespectful places you have mentioned, robs families from an experience that would bring you all closer to God. Sharing worship with loved ones (of both sexes) can be transcendant. This is an approach the Muslim church needs to look at as it deals with some very difficult times. Segregation is frowned upon in Canadian society, and ladies you need to be outspoken and loud if you want things to change.
Please don’t take what I’m about to say as an insult because it is not intended as such. How can one be devoted to a religion that is so blantantly anti-female. You are not second class or anyones property but with this practice and many others you accept this as being status quo. I cannot understand this at all, religion and the worship there of is for all; not only those endowed with a penis, which gives them no rights or special powers!
November 29, 2010 at 9:30 pm
The religion itself is very pro-female. It’s the interpretation of the religion made by misogynist political systems and patriarchal cultural structures that have a hand in creating anti-female religious sentiments.
This post has some brief information on the historical rights that Islam gave to women, and the dangers that misinterpretations of the sacred sources have on the modern treatment of women in society.
Men and women are equal in Islam — it’s just the implementation that’s sometimes lacking.
November 30, 2010 at 2:54 pm
I was reading one of the tafsirs of Surah 60 for my blog, written by an Arab scholar (it’s available online) and it goes like this:
Generally, the bai’ah taken from men was about Faith and Islam. Their pledge did not contain the details of injunctions of Shari’ah, unlike the pledge of women, which contained the details that are forthcoming. The difference between the two pledge is that men’s pledging for faith and obedience secures an undertaking to practice the entire system of Shari’ah and religion, and therefore there was no need for details. Women, on the other hand, are generally less intelligent than men. Therefore, details were thought to be necessary. This is the bai’ah that started with women, but later on was not confined to them. As time went on, the same detailed bai’ah was taken from men as well. Prophetic Traditions confirm this. [Emphasis mine]
As one can see here the respected scholar let his bias show up here. Women are less intelligent therefore they needed more details. Later on, men also got a more detailed bayah, so does that mean the men became dumber?
Second, don’t such opinions insult the women Sahabah, saying they were dumber then the men Sahaba? This is the attitude that is now present in those who wants to ban women from the mosque.
December 2, 2010 at 10:35 pm
This reminds me of the publication “Fatwas of Muslim Women” — where similar, spurious comments about women’s lack of intelligence is made.
And it absolutely insults women in Islamic history. Aisha went to war and collected the largest amount of ahadeeth. Khadijah was a shrewd and talented businesswoman. Prophet Ibrahim may have built the Kabah, but Hagar built Mecca.
January 4, 2011 at 9:42 pm
Assalamu Alaikum:
Thank you for your article. I agree, it is one of the most pressing issue of our time, especially in the West! The reality is that we have regressed.
This is an issue that we have worked on for years and we are heartened by such articles – we need more!
Please see our publication on “Women Friendly Mosques and Community Centers:
Working Together to Reclaim Our Heritage” at: http://womeninislam.org/Mosque.pdf
Wa Salam.
January 6, 2011 at 1:57 am
Welcome Aisha al-Adawiya! Really, thank you for linking to your publication. It was interesting to see quantitative data on this issue, like, “While 50% of mosques report that women have served at one time or another on their governing or executive boards, a sizeable proportion of mosques still prevent women from serving on their executive boards (31%). Nineteen percent said they allowed women to serve, but did not have any women actually serving on a board for the past five years.”
19%. Thanks guys. I still know of only one mosque that has a woman on the exec.
And the action plan for changing this situation is great! I’d like to do a summary post on this document if that’s okay by you.
February 22, 2011 at 5:13 pm
Please do!
January 13, 2011 at 1:01 am
Your thoughts on this are put much better than mine would be if I were to write this — and I do intend to write something on this!
You said: “I wonder though if I should be attending the mosques that make me uncomfortable.”
No. I don’t think that’s the way to go about making a point to those who continuously subjugate us by preventing us from worshiping in the House of God in a way we’re comfortable doing so. Sure, it’s much more difficult done than said, but I feel the same way. We can’t continue letting these people tell us where we can pray and where we can’t. I say this because of the MSA at my university currently: They’re starting to go backward, though we have many females on the exec board, and I have officially quit it. But a teacher of mine was like, “Well, if you quit, then do you think they’ll ever learn? You don’t have to tell them wrong in what they’re doing, but just share your views and make it known that your views matter and that the opinions of the majority should not hold valid just because they’re majority,” etc., etc. It was quite empowering and inspiring!
That acquaintance of yours sounds like a brave woman, by the way!
She made a smart move by waiting till they started, LOL! That way, no one could stop her. I mean, what were they gonna do — turn their faces around, do “Salaam,” and say, “ATTENTION, ATTENTION! There’s a sister amongst brothers here! Fitnah, brothers, fitnah!”?
January 17, 2011 at 5:42 am
Are you aware that the initial concession to allow women to attend mosque was abrogated during the time of the Sahabah when Aisha RA herself said: “If the Prophet (PBUH) had lived now, he would have forbidden women to go to the mosque as Bani Israil did.”
) It also doesn’t mean that the least intelligent man is more intelligent than the most intelligent woman, just in aggregate and relatively, e.g. I hope and pray your husband is (at least a bit) more intelligent than you
(very hard to submit to someone that is not…)
Furthermore, the equality of males and females in Islam relates to the spiritual domain. In the physical, worldly realm they are definitely not equal:
a man can lead a woman in salaat, a woman can never lead a man in salaat, and not even other women. a woman’s testimony is worth half that of a man’s. a sister’s inheritance is half of a brother’s. a woman needs the consent of her guardian for marriage, not a man. a woman needs her husband’s permission to leave the home. etc. etc. etc
as for intelligence, even since the advent of gender ‘equality’, how many nobel prize winners are women compared to men? however, what is very important is that prizing ‘intelligence’ is a Western concept, it has no basis in Islam and is in no way derogatory to women, as the most prized characteristic is piety. (i know this is hard to swallow
Lastly, the level of intermingling in the everyday sphere (work, shops, socially) has desensitized Muslim men and women so that (both) their natural sense of modesty is encumbered, so that if and when they do cross paths at mosques, ‘lowering of the gaze’ does not come naturally…
January 19, 2011 at 10:18 pm
ibtisaam, I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic or not, or if you’re intentionally trying to present the stereotypical and incorrect views of how men and women interact in Islam to prove a point.
Just because ‘Aisha (ra) offered an opinion on something, it doesn’t abrogate anything the Prophet (saw) said. The legal scholars do not necessarily allow the sayings of others to fundamentally change the religion. There may be legal schools or imams who use this saying to justify barring women from the masaajid — but it’s really just ‘Aisha’s opinion, nothing more. Even contextually we have no idea of why she said this of 7th century Medinan women. And how they acted certainly has no bearing on the actions of 21st century women, in immeasurably diverse communities throughout the world. If this were indeed the case, there would be no debate around allowing women in the masaajid. The scholars would have banned women outright — but they don’t, and consistently use the hadith where the Prophet said NOT to ban women from the mosque to help bring back the women who have been banned because of cultural misappropriations.
During the Prophet’s time, a woman did lead men in salaat. It was within their own “home” (a community of several families) and the men/boys were incapable of leading the salaat. Women can most certainly lead other women in salaat — and there are rules and guidelines for an imamah to follow, just as there are rules and guidelines for a male imam to follow.
Gaining your husband’s permission for anything is purely cultural and has no basis in Islam. The same goes for submitting. Your comment in this regard makes me think you’re just being sarcastic. It’s well known that in Islam, the only One people submit to is God. There is categorically, no requirement for a woman to submit to the will of her husband, and I’m slightly offended that you would suggest that of myself and the Hubby.
We know that patriarchy and male preference is endemic, so I’m not sure why you feel it’s important to compare the Western prizing of intelligence with the lack of female Nobel Prize winners.
And I really don’t think that people’s sense of modesty has become so corrupted that we cannot even interact civilly while at the mosque. Oh, and men and women are supposed to interact, hold fast to the rope of Allah and work together in Islam.
I will agree with you however that there are inequities that need further explanation and debate — especially women as witnesses, inheritance laws, and divorce.
Thanks for presenting your outlook.
October 13, 2011 at 11:24 am
Well said, Woodturtle. JAK!
February 22, 2011 at 1:48 am
ok, actually I wasn’t being sarcastic, but I see my input is wasted on women who are so inebriated with ‘equality’ that they refuse to acknowledge fundamental aspects of the Deen, and instead, relegate those injunctions they consider at odds with ‘equality’ (patriarchy) to ‘culture’.
February 22, 2011 at 12:50 pm
I don’t think your input is wasted — in fact, you’re voicing the opinion of many Muslim women, which is important. I many not agree with your opinion, but you are always more than welcome to express it here.
Sorry for questioning the intent of your comment. I just don’t think that submitting to my husband is a requirement or a fundamental aspect of the deen.
February 22, 2011 at 3:03 am
BTW what are your comments re. this hadith:
“If I were to order anyone to prostrate himself before another, I would have ordered a woman to prostrate herself before her husband”. [At-Tirmidhi]
February 22, 2011 at 5:17 pm
Regarding Ibtisaam’s hadith reference, I suggest we invite reputable hadith scholars to the discussion, such as Shaykh Abdullah Adhami.
March 5, 2011 at 12:16 pm
I just read this article. I know that it was an old post but this is a very new topic…unfortunately. From the article to the comments, the words come right out of my mouth. My only question is, how do we change this or make a bigger difference and not just accept what is still happening? I would further this concept into action. If you would like to discuss it further than please email me. Salam 3ailkoum Sister. Thank you for this post
April 1, 2011 at 4:28 pm
Asalaamu Alaikum
I can see from this that it is better for woman to read their prayers at home even so it makes me wonder about this woman who came in the mosque to offer a prayer. When a man saw her at the time she was doing her numaz (prayer) this man came to her stood infront of her when she was in prayer he said “get out we do not want you here” each time saying the same words louder and louder like a donkey this man said the same words louder and louder after, the woman was done with her prayer this man followed her and kept saying “get out of here”.She did not say a word and left when she left the man stopped… This makes me weep as this is the stage of our religion today.
For those people who say women should not be allowed in the mosque then they are going against the words of the Prophet(PBUH)as he clearly said “Do not prevent the female servants of Allah from going to the mosque”. As for the part where the Prophet(PBUH) said “It is more excellent for a woman to pray in her house than in her courtyard, and more excellent for her to pray in her private chamber than in her house” (Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi). Yes if the Prophet(PBUH)says this I cannot say anything against it, nevertheless if something is better e.g. if vegitable are better then chocolate does that mean you would not eat chocolate?. NO!!! you would eat chocolate why? because sometimes it is better to eat chocolate then vegitable.
As you know the population of women is growing and when it grows to such a extend to something like at a ratio of 1:30 or 1:40 or 1:50 one of these 50 women would make a mosque only for women and now only women would take control and lead the prayer why? because if we men can keep the women out what makes you think that women cannot do the same? if we (men) can discard the saying of the Prophet(PBUH) WHY CAN THEY (women) NOT DO IT!?. Now when (if I have a son)my son goes to the mosque and tries to enter a mosque which is a womens’ mosque ONLY he get pushed out then he askes “why do you not let me go enter the mosque?” the women would say “you did not give us the rights that the Prophet(PBUH) gave us why should we give you that right?”
This is such a future I do not wish for.As for the famous saying “what goes around comes around”.
April 5, 2011 at 4:51 pm
oo i mean to say the rights god gave us
October 13, 2011 at 11:31 am
I know this is late, but I found this lady to be a great pioneer in this area and her book is definitely worth a read:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003H4RBUI/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0060571446&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1B8C9NSS9947K7XK1499
February 20, 2013 at 11:09 pm
[...] in a house of worship. That we’ve stopped attending mosques because of gender segregation, hostile prayer spaces, higher-than-thou attitudes, discrimination against mothers and their children, horrible sermons, [...]